Shahnameh, Part 5

Leyla: salām bé hamegee, welcome to part five of our Tale of Zal, with Dr. Sahba Shayani. salām Sahba jān! 

Sahba: salām Leyla jān, great to be back again! 

Leyla: Yes. And today we are revealing the thrilling conclusion of this part of the story. Of course, this is a small part of the Shahnameh tale. But, what are we going to be hearing about today? 

Sahba: So, we left off with Zal having essentially listened to his guardian for the past, you know, many years, Simorgh, the great Simorgh, and deciding to give his father, Sam, his biological father Sam a second chance, essentially, right, now that he's come back, asking for forgiveness and realizing the mistakes that he's made in the past. So Zal, under the guidance of Simorgh, decides, okay, I will give this a shot. And he descends, Simorgh takes him down the mountain and gives him to Sam. And Sam bows before Simorgh in thanks, and looks upon Zal, and breaks into tears because of how much he's grown and what a handsome young man he has become. And then we start the rest of the tale, essentially. 

Leyla: A handsome young man, albeit with white hair still, right?

Sahba:  White hair, yes, exactly. With white hair. Yeah. Okay. So actually, I'll read a little description of Zal here for you. So when Sam sees him, he says, Ferdowsi writes, bar ō bāzooyé sheer ō khorsheed rooy delé pahlevān, dasté shamsheer jooy. Yeah? So bar ō bāzooyé sheer ō khorsheed rooy Upon him, upon Zal, he sees the arms. bāzooyé, bāzoo. This is a word we still use for your forearm, bāzoo. The arm, the forearms of a lion. ō khorsheed rooy. And the face of a sun. This is what I love about the Shahnameh is that it's written in the 11th century, but we can still read it and understand it so easily.

Leyla: That’s wild, yeah.

Sahba: All of these words are words we still use in this day, in this line we have bāzoo, sheer, khorsheed rooy, all four words that we still use on a daily basis in Persian. 

Leyla: Right, right. But do you remember when you first started reading it? Was it challenging for you to understand it? Like, have you gotten better and better? 

Sahba: Yes, absolutely. Yeah. It's a text that the more you work with it, because you get used to the rhythm, you get used to the syntax, the format of it, and things start to make more sense to you.

Leyla: It's very similar to reading Shakespeare for us now. It's like it's the same words. They're just put together in a very different way. And sometimes it takes a while before you can like unlock that understanding. 

Sahba: Absolutely. Yeah, exactly. And what's interesting about it too, is that with Shakespeare, Shakespeare is much, or at least, you know, what, 400 years, you know, later.

Leyla:  It’s pretty new.

Sahba: It's newer, you know. Yeah. Whereas the Shahnameh is much older, and you can still read it and understand it. Yeah. This is the beauty of Persian is that it really hasn't changed much since the inception of New Persian in the eighth, ninth century. Yeah. So, delé pahlevān, dasté shamsheer jooy. He sees within him, so he sees within in Zal the arms of a lion, the face of the sun. delé pahlevān, the heart of a paladin, of a hero. And dasté shamsheer jooy, and a sword-seeking hand, meaning that he’s a good warrior also, right. seeyāhash mozhé, deedé-hā gheergoon chō bosad lab ō rokh hamān-and khoon. So,  seeyāhash mozhé, his eyelashes is mozhé, are black deedé-hā gheergoon his eyes, deedé is eyes, yeah, like coming from deedan. deedé-hā gheergoon And his eyes, pitch black again, right. So his lashes are black, his eyes are black. chō bosad lab ō rokh hamān-and khoon Like bosad is another word for marjān, coral, which is a common trope also, when you want to talk about the color red in Persian literature. So like coral, his lips, and rokh, and his face. Yeah. So this, it refers to the fact that he's so fair that it's like red almost, his face and his lips. So you see the image that they're drawing too. Eyelashes, eyes, pitch black, face rosy red and hair white as snow, essentially. Wow. Yeah. delé sām shod chon beheshté bareen barān pāk farzand kard āfareen His heart became like the heavens and he said āfareen. He said, he gave his praise to his child, yeah. tanash-rā yekee pahlavānee ghabāy bepoosheed ō zé kooh bogzārd pāy. Because remember that Zal at this point has been reared by Simorgh. He’s like an animal. He's naked fully, right? So, tanash-rā yekee pahlavānee ghabāy His body he covers with ghabā, which is essentially like a cloak or a tunic that is appropriate for a paladin, for a hero. And he brings him down from the mountains, yeah. And when the army sees him, they all cheer and raise their hands in praise. And they say, āfareen, you know, wow. And they take him towards civilization little by little, essentially. 

Leyla: So really, a hero's welcome. Truly a hero’s welcome.

Sahba: Truly a hero's welcome. Exactly, exactly. Yeah, yeah. And then we are told that the first thing that happens is, that news of Zal’s arrival to civilization and to basically his father's embrace reaches Manuchehr Shāh, the King of Kings. And here is the beautiful scene that really consecrates this important relationship between these kingships. You know, it's important to note that you have the Shāhanshāh, Manuchehr Shāh, and then you have Sam, who’s the King of Zabulistan, he's a vassal king of the Shāhanshāh, but they also have this very close relationship with one another, right? It's actually because of these vassal kingdoms that the King is able to rule. It's like a symbiotic relationship in a way. So the news of it immediately reaches Manuchehr Shāh, and Manuchehr Shāh sends his own son to go to Zal and to give him praise and thanks. And then he himself follows, and they receive Zal, and they take him back to Zabulistan together. They take him back to Zabulistan together. And there he is celebrated and praised. So, there he is celebrated and praised. And then Sam is curious to see what does Zal’s future and fortune look like. So this is very important in Persian literature, is that the kings will always turn to their astrologers and say, okay, this character, this person, this son, this child of mine, look up his astrology and see, you know, it's fascinating because nowadays astrology has become big, you know, in our world, modern Western world. But it's been a part of our tradition since, like the Greeks, like the ancient Greeks for thousands of years. And anytime, like our Indian neighbors too, the same, if they anytime they wanted to chart out the blessedness of something or, whether it's going to be a good idea to have a wedding, to go to war, any of these things, what day would be perfect for this? They would turn to the astrologers, and the astrologers would cast out the map of the, you know, of that day and say, okay, this is fortuitous, it's not, do it, don't do it. Where's the moon going to be on this day? Where will Saturn be on this day? And which house and all of these things? So he turns to his astrologers and says, what should - is this fortuitous? Is this going to be good? So Ferdowsi says, setāré-shenāsān ham andar zamān zé akhtar gereftand yek yek neshān setāré-shenāsān the astrologers, ham andar zamān - in that moment. zé akhtar, akhtar is the Arabic word for star, from the stars. gereftand yek yek neshān They took one by one signs, you know, as in they look to them. begoftand bā shāhé dayheemdār they told the King, the crown-holding King. ké "shādān bezee tā bovad roozegār, that live in happiness as long as the world continues. ké oo pahlavānee bovad nāmdār that he is going to be a hero renowned amongst the world. nāmdār. sarafrāz ō hoshyār ō gord ō savār!" He is going to be noble or renowned. sarafrāz. hoshyār, he’s going to be wise, aware. He's going to be gord. He's going to be a warrior. ō savār! And again, like a warrior in a way. savār literally means the word we use for today, riding, yeah. So it means he’ll be a rider, he'll be seated upon a horse, which is a symbol of, again, his ability to fight in battle and be a paladin. chō beshneed shāh een sakhon shād shod So when the king heard these words, shād shod, he became happy. delé pahlevān az gham āzād shod And the hearts of the paladin, of the hero, meaning Sam in this case, az gham, from sorrow, āzād shod, was freed. yekee khel'atee sākht shāhé zameen ké kardand har kas baroo āfareen So he created a enclave where he was seated, where everyone could come and give their praise. zé aspāné tāzee bé zareen setām zé shamsheeré hendee bé zareen neeyām zé deebā vō khaz ō zé yāghoot ō zar zé gostardanee-hāyé beseeyār mar gholāmāné roomee bé deebāyé room hamé paykar az gohar ō zaré boom… So he's beginning to set up the castle for Zal, essentially. So he's adorning it with all kinds of things. zé aspāné tāzee, with Arabian horses. bé zareen setām zé shamsheeré hendee, the Hindu sword, meaning Indian sword. bé zareen neeyām So notice all of the different elements that come from the surrounding regions, to the neighboring regions. The Arabian horse, the Indian sword. Right? This shows you the connection that all of these, that this empire has with all of its neighboring empires. And I always highlight this as something that's very important for us to remember in today's world. You know, our relationships with our neighbors go back centuries and millennia and, you know, this is very important to remember. These aren't new connections. These are ancient connections that, unfortunately, in the modern-day have sometimes been forgotten, you know? 

Leyla: Well, I think they've been very purposely, we've purposely been divided for so long. 

Sahba: Yes. Yes, unfortunately. Yeah. And well, and also, I think, you know, I think these things are, they go hand in hand. It's someone else. Someone else’s doing perhaps, but also our own fault for giving up. 

Leyla: Oh, absolutely. You're right, you're right. 

Sahba: And often, there's actually this beautiful article by a famous Iranian scholar talking about how suddenly now our gaze has, as of, you know, the 18th century, turn towards the west, and we've completely forgotten all of our neighbors with whom we've had this connection. And it's true for all of us. You know, it's not just the Iranians who've done this, but a lot of our varying neighbors have also done this. And it's important for us to reorient ourselves and to realize our relationship with our neighbors are ancient and that we share the same source with many of them, actually, you know, and to go back to that, essentially. 

Leyla: Absolutely. That's wonderful. What does the word zareen mean? 

Sahba: zareen, oh that's a great question, I like that you asked that. zareen yanee talāee.

Leyla: Okay. Like zargh ō bargh comes from that? 

Sahba: Okay so zar actually is a synonym for talā actually. zar is the Persian word for gold. talā comes from Arabic actually. The same way with what do we call silver today? 

Leyla: noghré 

Sahha: noghré, āfareen, noghré. The Persian word for noghré is actually seem. So seem, and then from these you get the names, the female names Simin and Zareen. Silvern and golden, right. So zar just means gold and zareen, golden. 

Leyla: Okay. Wonderful. 

Sahha: So all of these things, Sam procures for Zal, and then he makes, he renews his pact and covenant with Manuchehr Shāh, the King of Kings. And he turns to Zal and says, okay, you have come home now, Zabulistan is your home. Welcome home to this gathering. We're glad to have you back. And Zal then turns to him and says, I, I forgive you for all that you have done, essentially. I forgive you for your mistakes, for being a bad father, essentially. 

Leyla: For leaving me to die. 

Sahba: For leaving me to die in the mountains. So he says, I forgive you for what you have done, but under one condition.

Leyla: Oh, okay. 

Sahba: And Sam says, what? What is the condition? Anything. You name it. And Zal says, under the condition that should I seek something, then from you in the future, you will never say no to me. 

Leyla: Ooooh. 

Sahba: That you will never say no to me. You can't deny me anything that I request of you. And Sam says fair enough, I give you that. I shan't deny you anything that you yearn for. And so Zal has returned magnanimously to Zabulistan. And he begins to reign alongside his father, and eventually becomes, once Sam sits back, Zal takes over, essentially, and he becomes the great paladin and hero. But to leave you all on a cliffhanger, as I like to do. 

Leyla: What? 

Sahba: What? It's our last session! But this promise that Zal makes Sam make to him comes back very handy. And has a very important part in what continues afterward and what leads to the essential birth and creation of the greatest hero of the Shahnameh, Rustam. 

Leyla: That is quite a cliffhanger. Okay, I guess we're going to have to have Dr. Shayani back for another rendition because we cannot stop there. Okay. Well, wonderful. Well, thank you so much. That's, that was a really good tale. The Tale of Zal, and how he came to, came back I think we can, like you said, we can take a lot of lessons from just the bit that we've learned. Is there anything else that you want to point out about what we've learned so far? 

Sahba: I think, you know, I think in all of the lessons, we’ve really done a good job of capturing the essence of the story and the really important points, the effects that it brings out. One thing that I will leave you with is, again, reminding you that this is one of the most depicted stories of the Shahnameh. So you will, so keep an eye out if you're ever looking at Persian miniatures and stuff, for this scene where this giant bird is flying with a white haired baby. This is the scene depicted quite often. 

Leyla: So did we say at this point he's six years old? Did I understand that right? Or did I make that up? 

Sahba: No. At this point he when he returns to the kingdom, he's older. I mean, I don’t have an age, but in my head, I imagine a youth. I mean, he is a youth. He’s not a child. Yeah. He's a youth. 

Leyla: Okay, so like, maybe in his late teens or something. 

Sahba: In his teens. Yeah, definitely in his late teens. 

Leyla: Okay. Got it. Late teens. Yeah. That’s why, of course, he's built like an elephant, not a six-year-old. That's why he's like built, yeah, exactly, he's like super ripped. Yeah. Right, right, right. Okay. Good, good. And, he's like, learned how to talk and stuff from Simorgh, is that right? From Simorgh. This is again the magic of it. Yeah, it’s that he's able to communicate because of Simorgh. Okay, okay. Well I think that's a great place to leave it off. And thank you so much for this series of lessons. It was really exciting. My pleasure. I hope that all the students can, so we have all this text, that the students can look at and really try to go over everything that we've heard, like Sahba said, the more you listen to it, the more you can kind of understand it. And I'm looking forward to doing that as well. And then there's these, you know, key words that I think you said there's, you said, like, the coral. What is the word for coral?

Sahba: In Persian, in modern Persian, it's marjān. 

Leyla:marjān, but here in our poem? 

Sahba: Here it was bosad. It's bosad. 

Leyla: Okay. But I think that that's important because I think they're these key words. So, like you said, like this is used often in this, in this text to depict red, that color red. So then there's these key words that, you might not hear very often, but then once you hear it, you're like, okay, I understand what they're saying when they say this word bosad, okay, got it. It's going to be red. It's going to depict a certain feeling or a certain symbolism. So then these are kind of the keys. 

Sahba: Yeah. And it's important to remember that there are these images that appear in Persian poetry throughout a variety of genres of Persian poetry that each represent the colors that are generally associated with some part of the human face, essentially, and what is considered beautiful. Right. And so the cheek are often, or the face, the cheeks are often compared to roses or coral in this case, because they're supposed to be rosy. The lips are always compared to like to like coral or carnelian often, or agate, the stone aqeeq, because they're supposed to be red. The eyes are always black, the lashes are always black, and in Zal’s case the hair is white. 

Leyla: Right, exactly. But then once we figure this out, we see them over and over again. 

Sahba: Yes, It turns into a trope. 

Leyla: Exactly, exactly. So I'm looking forward to the next story that we do, hopefully we’ll see more of those in there and be able to understand it better. I think the more of these we do, the more we can understand. Another question I have is that if students want to kind of get a full context of the whole Shahnameh, do you recommend, for example, reading the Dick Davis translation or what do you recommend doing?

Sahba: Absolutely. I think if you read it in English, I would recommend Dick Davis' translation of the Shahnameh. If you're a French reader, I would advise Jules Mohl’s translation of the Shahnameh, which is a much older translation, but he translated all into verse, into poetry. Have you read that yourself? I've read parts of it. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah. But, in English, Dick Davis probably is a great option. Another option, if you want with imagery, which is also, you know, a fun thing, is the illustrated version by Hamid Rahmanian. I actually have it back there. I should have brought it and showed it, but, have you seen it yourself? 

Leyla: Oh, yeah, I have it. Oh, of course I have that and I have his pop-up as well. It's fantastic. Yes. 

Sahba: Yeah, yeah, yeah. The pop-up is great, yeah, but the only thing with the Rahmanian book is that it's like part of the Shahnameh. It's not the whole thing. Whereas Dick Davis’ is like a book that you sit down and read. And that is, it covers the entirety of the Shahnameh. Of course, parts of it are like taken out and parts of it aren't included because the Shahnameh itself, you know, actually, we should have mentioned this on the first day, but never too late. It is the longest text written by a single person. 

Leyla: Oh, I didn't know that. Okay. 

Sahba: It’s the longest poem written by a single poet, actually. Wow. There are longer poems in which there have been multiple poets writing. But this is the longest poem written by a single poet. So, it's huge. So no translation is like, I don't think we have really a translation that's like the entire thing, but, Dick Davis’ is the closest there is to it. 

Leyla: And have you read all of the Persian? 

Sahba: I haven't read all of it. No, I've read parts of it. No, the Shahnameh is quite, a lot of the depictions are of the wars and of the battles between the kings and stuff. And for me, that's not so interesting. For me, the parts of that are interesting are the human connections. And if you noticed, actually the parts that I quote a lot, I found, caught myself doing this. But the parts that I quote a lot from the text are the parts where the people are speaking to each other. And I think for me, that's the most interesting part, is the human relationships in the text and the interactions. And my specialty, I mean, my research is on the role of women in classical Persian epic romances and, so that’s what I focus on, is on the role of the women of the Shahnameh. 

Leyla: Right. Which you pointed out, we had that in part one, women were very important and then became less so as it went on. But like you said, also, the Simorgh is not gendered. So we don't know if that's a female or male character or both. Yeah. Gender binary or non-binary. Okay. Well, wonderful. That was so good. And we're going to link to all of these, all of these, translations and books that we just mentioned, on here so that people can get them and look at them and yeah, of course, I have all of these versions except for the French one. So it's good to have. Well, Sahba jān, thank you so much. That was a really wonderful first Shahnameh that we did. And I hope that we do many more together. 

Sahba: Inshallah, yes, my pleasure. Thank you so much for having me, Leyla jān, and for making this happen. It was really a pleasure to be on Chai and Conversation with you and to have a whatever small, however small it may be, a little role in this journey. 

Leyla: Absolutely. Thank you so much. And tā dafeyé ba’d, khodāhāfez from Leyla. 

Sahba: khodā negahdār ghorbonet.