Shahnameh, On the Creation of the World, Part 2

Leyla: salām, Omid jān, welcome to Part Two! Thank you for joining us again! 

Omid: Of course! 

Leyla: In the last lesson, we had an introduction to the Shahnameh, to why we are learning what we're learning, and we learned the first just couple lines of On the Creation of the World. Today, we're going to keep going with that story. Is there anything that you want us to know or think about before we get into the text?

Omid:  No, I think it's great to just pick up where we left off and just remind ourselves that in the last lesson, we just read the first two lines and the idea that it's important to know where the elements came from that created and comprise this universe, to give us the answer, which was that...starts with the idea of the divine, bringing something from a state of no-thingness into the state of thingness, from nācheez to cheez, so that what can become, what can happen is “tavānāyee” or all of the potential can start to “padeedār beshé”, ‘to start to become manifest and seen’, so from an unseen state into a seen state. I just wanted to also add that these “tavānāyee”s, these ‘potentials’ that would have somehow been all contained in that entity that he calls “yazdān,” these are really all the powers of divinity that can start to manifest, and not just be there only as protection. That's where we stopped.

Leyla: Wonderful, all right! 

Omid: He goes on from there, and he says: saré māyéyé goharān een chahār bar āvardé bee ranj ō bee roozgār. Again, “saré māyé” means ‘the origin’ or ‘the foundation’. “goharān”, we said in the last lesson, are ‘the essences’ or ‘the elements’. “gohar” in Farsi is very close to the word “johar” and really the same idea. It means ‘element’ or ‘essence’ of something, and there are “chahār”, there are four of them. Ferdowsi is going with this ancient idea that was first proposed in Greece about the idea of the four elements, earth, air, water, and fire, and the idea that these elements were the roots or the fundamental building blocks of all matter and that everything else that existed was a result of their combination and separation. As I said in the other lesson, this, we know now, is not necessarily a scientific view of things, but it is a way to help us understand, philosophically, the idea of different elements combining together. We do know, we have identified now many, many elements of the chemical table. We do know that most of what's on the earth is pretty much some combination of these different elements, but back then, it was just limited or understood first as these four very, very basic, elemental things, water, earth, air, and fire. Does that make sense? Yes. Ferdowsi goes back, and he says: saré māyéyé goharān een chahār bar āvardé bee ranj ō bee roozgār “bar āvardé” means ‘bringing forth’. We were talking about “yazdān” in the previous line. It is “yazdān”, it is this highest energy, this most divine energy in the universe that brings forth these four elements, as the first four manifestations, as the first four things that came out of no thing. This was done “bee ranj”, which means ‘without any toil, without any effort’. In other words, this just was a very, very easy and organic thing for a source to do, to just bring these four elements into manifest existence. “va bee roozegār,” “roozegār” means ‘time and space’ in Ferdowsi. Before there was even time and space, these four things appeared. Then they started to create the world of time and space that we know of. Does that make sense? Okay. Now, he starts to give us an account of these four elements, and the order in which they came about, and how they may have influenced the appearance, one of the other, of the other, of the other. He says: yekee āteshee bar shodé tābnāk meeyān āb ō bād az baré teeré khāk Right away, he names the four elements: “ātesh,” which we heard, ‘fire’; “āb,” which is ‘water’; “bād,” which is ‘wind’; and “khāk,” which is ‘earth’ or ‘soil’, but the way he explains it is this: yekee āteshee bar shodé tābnāk “yekee āteshee” There's a fire that rises. “bar shodé” means ‘to go up’. ‘A fire rises’, “tābnāk,” and it's ‘glowing’. This fire is usually associated with the Sun, also. This idea of this warmth, this fiery element that rises above everything, and it glows, it radiates, “tābnāk.” “meeyān āb, meeyān āb ō bād az baré teeré khāk” This fire is overseeing or is above everything, but then, in the middle of all of this, there is water and wind, “āb ō bād.” Then, below all of that, is the dark earth, is the soil. The conception is that fire is the highest location-wise, and then there is water and wind, and then below everything, below all of this, is the earth itself. “teeré khāk” is the ‘dark soil’, which is one of the ways that Ferdowsi refers to the earth. nakhosteen ké ātesh bé jonbesh dameed zé garmeesh pas khoshkee āmad padeed He says, as the fire first stirred and rose up and breathed. “dameedan” is ‘to breathe’. It breathes its warmth, it breathes its energy “nakhosteen,” ‘at first’, “ké ātesh bé jonbesh dameed.” “jonbesh” means ‘stirring’ or ‘moving’. The fire moves, and it breathes. “zé garmeesh,” ‘from its heat, from its warmth’, this is simple Farsi, “garmeesh.” It's like “garmee-yé yé cheezee”, we say. It's warmth, it’s heat. “zé garmeesh pas,” “pas,” ‘then’ or ‘therefore’, “khoshkee āmad padeed,” ‘dryness, dry land came forth, appeared’. “padeed āmadan” is ‘to appear’ or ‘to become created’ or ‘to come into existence’. It's the warmth of the fire that allows things to cool down to the point where dryness or dry land can also exist. Makes sense? 

Leyla: Yes. 

Omid: Great. va z'ān pas zé ārām sardee namood zé sardee hamān bāz taree fozood. ‘Then’, “va z'ān pas,” ‘after that’, “zé ārām”, there’s a calmness that happens to the fire. The fire first breathes its warmth and its heat, but then, as it starts to cool down a little bit, “sardee namood”, ‘coldness appeared’. What does this coldness do? “zé sardee”, ‘from that coldness’, hamān bāz taree fozood “taree” means ‘moisture’. “fozood,” from “afzāyesh,” means ‘to increase’ or ‘to grow.’ Once the fire starts to cool down and calm down, things get cooler, and so moisture can appear. Otherwise, the fire would immediately dissipate any notion of moisture, but the warmth decreases, and moisture appears, which is the element of water. Does it make sense? Then he says: chō een chār gohar bé jāy āmadand zé bahré sepanjee sarāy āmadand. He says, ‘as these four elements took their place’, “een chār gohar,” and often, Ferdowsi abbreviates “chāhar”. He takes the “hé” out, and he makes it “chār,” probably because it fits with his meter better, instead of saying “chō een chāhar gohar.” It would mess with the meter. “chō een chār gohar,” ‘these four elements’, “bé jāy āmadand,” ‘they took their place’. “jāy” means ‘place’. They came to their proper places. zé bahré sepanjee sarāy āmadand. ‘They came’, “āmadand,” “zé bahré,” ‘for the sake of’, ‘for the benefit of’, “sepanjee sarāy.” This is one of Ferdowsi’s favorite expressions to refer to this world. “sarāy”, or “sarā” as we also say, means ‘a home’ or ‘a place’ or ‘a location’. In my grandparents’ days, they would call their house “sarā,” actually. They’d say beeyā sarāyé man. “sarā” means ‘a place’ or ‘a location’. “sepanjee” is really, really, a word that we don't use much anymore. It means ‘something transient’, ‘something temporary’. Often, Ferdowsi uses this beautiful expression, “sepanjee sarāy” to refer to this world of ours, this world of time and space, that is ultimately transitory and is always changing, always shifting, never permanent. It does not have that immortal quality that the nonphysical realm has for Ferdowsi. He says these four elements come together for the sake of creating this temporary, transient world. A lot of Shahnameh is interjected by Ferdowsi by reminders that we as human beings in this form, live in this “sepanjee sarāy,” in this transient world. He stresses, continuously, the importance of not getting attached to that which is material, not getting so bogged down and entangled in the material aspect of our existence because ultimately, it's “sepanjee,” it's ‘transient’, and it's like trying to hold on to water. It just doesn't make any sense, and it causes a lot of difficulty and pain, as well as misunderstanding and misfortune for characters in Shahnameh when they get attached to the material aspect of the world. 

Leyla: Okay.

Omid: Does that make sense? 

Leyla: Yes. 

Omid: It's a really good lesson for us human beings, but here is one of the first times that he mentions this idea of “sepanjee sarāy” and how these four elements came together. 

Leyla: Can you say again, what was the word “sepanjee” exactly, literally, mean? 

Omid: “sepanjee” literally means ‘transient’ or ‘temporary’. It sounds to be a little bit, like, sponge-like, which I like also.

Leyla: “bābé esfanjee” 

Omid: Yeah, there's all of that, exactly. Then he says: gohar-hā yek andar degar sākhté zé har gooné gardan barafrākhté Once these four elements appear, now they start to mingle together, interweave together, “yek andar degar,” ‘one into another’. “sākhté” means they ‘build’ themselves, one onto the other, these four elements, “gohar.” zé har gooné gardan barafrākhté “zé har gooné” means ‘in many different ways’, ‘in all sorts of different ways’, “gardan barafrākhté” means ‘to stick your neck out’, which really means ‘to show up’. They show up, in other words, in many, many different combinations. In a way, modern science tells us that that's how things exist. That's how the physical world exists, as different elements start to get created, ultimately, but what's important is for us to understand that Ferdowsi is just giving us a more general idea that this world is a compound world the different elements bring together, and all of this business of creation happens in this process. business of creation happens in this process. Does that make sense? Yes. Does that make sense? Yes. Then he says: padeed āmad een gonbadé teez-rō shegeftee namāyandéyé nō bé nō He says, now, this “gonbad”, this ‘dome’ appears, and this “gonbad” is “teez-rō”. “teez” means ‘fast’ or ‘quickly’, and “rō” means ‘something that moves’, ‘something that goes’, “az raftan meeyād,” comes from “raftan”. “gonbadé teez-rō” means ‘a dome that moves quickly and swiftly’. He says this dome appeared, in other words, this dome of the sky that we know of appeared. shegeftee namāyandéyé nō bé nō The whole idea is that there's always a new “namāyandé,” ‘a new wonder’ appears. It displays a new wonder into existence. From this dome, all kinds of new, amazing things constantly come into the world. In this world, also, new things start to appear. Before he moves on from that, he talks about the world of the skies, the world of the heavens. The idea is that he says: abar dah ō dō haft shod kadkhodāy gereftand har yek sezāvār jāy This gets a little bit esoteric. I think we have a few minutes, if you don't mind, for me to just explain a little bit about this idea. Sure! The literal meaning is that ‘seven’, “haft shod kadkhodāy.” “kadkhodāy” means ‘ruler’, somebody or something that has dominion. “haft shod kadkhodāy abar,” ”abar” means ‘over’, “dah ō dō.” “dah ō dō” means ‘ten and two’, which means ‘twelve’. He says seven took dominion over twelve. What does this mean? What does this refer to? Yeah. It's a little bit of an esoteric idea, but the seven refers to the seven planets or the stars that, in the geocentric model of the universe, were believed to surround the earth. The earth was understood as being at the center of the world. And it was surrounded by seven spheres. Almost like Russian dolls. The earth was surrounded by seven spheres, each of them bigger than the next. Each of these spheres was associated with one of the planets or the Suns that they had clearly identified in the sky at the time where this model came about. Again, goes back to ancient Greece. Those planets were the Sun, the Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, and Saturn. These seven were looked at as the rulers of the skies, as the rulers of the heavens, “kadkhodāy.” “kadkhodā” means ‘the lord of the house’. That's the seven. What is the 12? The 12 refers to the idea that the sky was divided into 12 equal sections or as we call them, Houses of the Zodiac. Are you into astrology, Leyla? Yeah. Okay. Yeah, that's fine. Not about predicting what's going to happen tomorrow, but just the idea that this was one way to make sense and make an order out of what they saw going on in the heavens and in the skies above them. The idea was that the sky was divided into these 12 equal sections or Houses, which we today called the Houses of the Zodiac. Each planet, each of these seven planets, was looked, was seen to rule over 1 or 2 of these Houses. For example, the planet Mars, or “mereekh,” as we call it in Farsi, ruled over Aries and Scorpio, and so on and so forth. In astrology, it gets very complicated, about what's your star sign, what's your moon sign, and which planet rules over your sign, and so on, and so forth. 

Leyla: Are you very into it?

Omid:  I'm not that into it. 

Leyla: Okay, okay. In the Shahnameh, they talk about it a lot. 

Omid: Yes, there's a lot of it in Shahnameh as well. In a way, this is also setting the stage for some of that as well. The whole idea is that he's giving us a picture of the way that the organization of the world was understood at the time and the order in which this process happened. As part of this order, the seven planets, the “haft,” start to rule over the 12 Houses of the Zodiac. gereftand har yek sezāvār jāy, and ‘each one of these planets takes its own proper place’. “sezāvār” means ‘that which you are deserving of’, ‘that which is your proper right’. gereftand har yek sezāvār jāy. “jāy gereftan” is ‘to take their place.’ “har yek” means ‘each of them’, so each of them takes its own proper place in this order of creation and of the world. 

Leyla: Wow, okay, so so far, we have no living beings! It's like the rulers are the stars. 

Omid: Exactly. You are giving us a little bit of a look, preview, exactly, that now we're going to start getting into living beings and seeing how that process is going to come back. 

Leyla: Well, exciting! Okay. That's going to be in the next lesson. Is there anything else you want to say, just about everything that we've covered so far? 

Omid: No, I think we're good, just looking forward to continuing and seeing how the rest of it comes about and eventually, as I said, getting to the highlights, which is the appearance of the human being.

Leyla: Nice, and yeah, this seems like a just crash course on creation, just happening, everything is happening very, very fast. 

Omid: Exactly, bim, bam, boom! 

Leyla: Yeah, I guess you're right, like the Big Bang. 

Omid: Yeah. 

Leyla: All right, well, thank you so much! We'll be back next time with the next lines, and hopefully, we'll see, well, not hopefully, I’m enjoying the unfolding. Maybe there will be life of organic beings. We'll see. 

Omid: No question, no question.

Leyla: All right, until next time, khodāhāfez Omid jān. 

Omid: Thank you, leylā jān! Thank you, everyone, see you soon!